Location: Room 3, South Block, Department of Finance
Attendance: As per attached list


1. Minutes of previous meeting
The previous minutes were agreed.

2. Presentation on the Forum on Public Procurement in Ireland
Mr. Kearney welcomed the representatives of the Forum on Public Procurement to the meeting and invited them to present on the Forum's structure, activities, and purpose.

Mr. Lionel McCarthy, Chief Executive of the Forum gave a short presentation on the FPP. The following points emerged:

• The Forum had its genesis in the report of the Task Force on Small Business published in 1994 which had highlighted the need for a conduit for information flows between public sector buyers and private sector suppliers.

• The Forum, which is an all-island body, was formed in 1996 and represents public bodies engaged in purchasing as well as suppliers. A number of expert panels are examining different areas of procurement under the headings of :
• improved access to public contracts (chaired by Mr. Aiden Maher of Dublin Corporation)
• training of purchasing staff
• debriefing of suppliers
• improved opportunities for subcontractors
• use of standards and specifications in selection

• During 1998 the Forum conducted a series of workshops on procurement for about 500 suppliers and service providers to the public sector.

3. Debriefing
A constant theme of the Forum workshops has been the need for comprehensive debriefing procedures by public bodies. Similarly, a survey amongst SMEs highlighted their desire for improved debriefing procedures right across the public sector. The FPP has prepared a draft debriefing policy document to address this area. This is currently under consideration by the Forum with a view to finalising their deliberations by end February (copy attached herewith).
The draft document was circulated to the meeting. It was agreed that members of the FOI Business Advisory Group would examine the proposals and respond at the next meeting. This is scheduled for the third week of January 1999 and the representatives of the FPP accepted an invitation from Mr. Kearney to attend.

4. Information Commissioner's Office
In general the level of appeals to the Information Commissioner from business has been very low. However the degree of complexity involved in these cases has been considerable. Mr. Smith of the Information Commissioner's Office advised that a very small number of appeals (6) had been lodged by firms with the Commissioner against the release of records on the grounds that they contained commercially sensitive information.

The definition of "commercially sensitive" in the FOI Act is complex and it is sometimes difficult for officials in public bodies to determine whether records fell within the definition. In such circumstances officials were required to consult with the firms involved. Firms responses varied from unconcern to firm opposition to release of records. Mr Smith suggested that some firms possibly were under the false impression that to signal agreement to release records in one case meant automatic release of any records relating to the firm in the future.

A finding in the area of procurement has yet to be made by the Information Commissioner, though one was expected quite shortly. In anticipation of this development it was agreed to revisit the matter at the January meeting, which Mr Smith agreed to attend.

Mr. Smith stated that his Office welcomed the FPP's broad approach towards debriefing procedures. It was acknowledged that FOI procedures were of their nature complex and somewhat cumbersome. The meeting agreed that it would be preferable if access to information for tenderers could be provided outside of FOI. The FPP's draft debriefing document, which sought to achieve this in a structured way, was a very useful development.

5. Contacts abroad
Mr. Nolan referred to the decision at the inaugural meeting of the Group to pursue contacts with business organisations in relevant jurisdictions abroad regarding their experience with FOI. He gave a short synopsis of the responses from bodies in Australia, Canada and New Zealand. While the response rate had been low it was clear from the replies received that FOI was not a concern to these organisations. Their informational needs, and those of their client bodies, were being met outside of FOI. Members were invited to keep the Group abreast of soundings on FOI from their sister organisations abroad.

6. AOB
Ms. Daly advised of FOI events which IBEC has conducted for its members around the country. While attendance had been good it was still less than anticipated. It was agreed that IBEC and the FOI Central Policy Unit might work together on further seminars.

7. Next Meeting
The next meeting will be held in the third week of January on a date to be advised.

K. Nolan

Attachments:
- FPP Draft Debriefing Policy Paper
- FPP paper on SMEs produced for ERPA Conference , November 1998
- HM Treasury Central Unit on Procurement Guidance Note on Debriefing